*******the bush administration pretty much opened the flood gates for basically a blank check for these interests - interests which should be known are NOT necessarily those of the everyday israeli, just like alot of what the u.s. government does is not in the interest of its citizens(although it may mask it that way)*******
But empires have ALWAYS conveyed the claim of being in the best interests of the supporters/dependents/accomplices. Israeli and American SAFETY and COMFORT is the psychological politrick that fuels the machine. The Bush regime was the last appointee in the entire scene. Now we have a non-threatening smiling ice-cream man.
*******sweetheart u.s. government deals like halliburton and bechtel were probably equally matched with similar deals with israeli companies.*******
360, I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt that we are not being somewhat protective and/or naive here. The scope of israeli involvement within American affairs (including the Cosa Nostra-Mafia) goes way beyond military and politics and sweetheart deal...and a long time before some Bush term.
* yes i agree with you. and i am NOT making the point that it is just about the bush administration. my point is that with bush II it was almost as if two power centers merged together. any barriers seemed to have been completely undone. almost as if a complete synthesis between the u.s. and israel had been implemented. that is why i mentioned the bush admin, not in exclusivity - but as 8 years where a pinnacle of (if you want to call it) infiltration was achieved. like 2 crime families joining forces and starting a new company with a joint board of directors. if we are talking about the "new world order" and the implementation of an "evolved" form of government which depends on high-tech, survellaince, military-industry, there seems to have been a concerted effort to concentrate integral parts of this apparatus in israel. that is why i think that there is this ongoing relationship between u.s. high tech/military and the state of israel to create a joint power structure - the proof is the amount of companies in israel that specialize in and form a nexus point for this network.
My question remains, when was there NOT impactful jewish involvement in any facet of the US or Western Civilization as a whole?
* there wasn't one. but we also have to ask when were Jews NOT also shaped by the cultures which surrounded them? there is/was a give and take as there always is when different cultures mingle. a black american in africa full of notions of american materialism would be as out of place as a rich european court jew in pre-israeli palestine.
Look how often ones point out the Masonic/Skull and Bone membership of leaders such as Gore and Bush and Kerry. Look how often ones point out the Boule membership of Cosby and Jesse. But rarely do you ever blatantly hear of the jewish membership of controllers in Hollywood/entertainment or any of the other "9 areas of human behavior" . That is because it is TABOO to make mention of it. Why?
I am not making the blanket statement that “(no names please) run everything” but I cannot think of one area where WASP males have absolute exclusivity except for perhaps a country club or two. Can you?
* i would not and have not made the claim that this is an issue of exclusive WASP control. i am of the belief people and groups of people interact and adapt and do not exist in a vacuum. groups can and do "team up" for mutual interests. i would say you are right in the fact that the issue is ideology and these ideologies come from SOMEWHERE and I think you have done a good job of analyzing and breaking down the roots of these ideas. i had a discussion with Tomeka on this board about this a couple of months ago.
But back to Europe...we can see that the European masses were given a carrot. By whom and for what purpose is the question?
Europeans created the State of Israel, right?
Who created the “state” of white/male supremacy (whiteness)?
Was not the exclusive, separatist, supremacist, chosenist MANIFEST DESTINY mindset already possessed by groups of people BEFORE Europe was even homogenized via catholicism/xtianity?
SOMEONE TURNED OUT EUROPE.
* yes i agree. we see traces of this "manifest destiny" in the exploits of alexander the great pre-roman empire, pre-christianity. we see this in the aryan/persian ideas(monotheists also) whom some have theorized actually were the ones who influenced the jews(israel actually a vassal state of the persians). you asked me where notions similar to the ones you were describing were present and i mentioned zoroastrianism - and it was not a way of avoiding a taboo subject, it was another avenue. we can see that we are talking about a general geographical area when we talk of jews and persians/aryans. we could also talk of a general geographical area of the mingling of well developed cultures in the mediterranean and middle-east with the europeans and how this turned into another amalgam/bastard son ideology that then spread. to the utility of empire - the monotheistic impulse lends itself perfectly as it reflects the worldview/motives of the people which originated it/adopt it.
The power of UNITY is an OMNIPOTENT truth. So as white Europe was gaining strength, a common enemy had to be created...a boogey man had to create uneasiness and FEAR...and additionally, a common mindset had to be instilled into the European psyche. That notion was none other than the monotheistic, Abrahamic, Judeo-Christian religious imperial institution, so powerful that even with a split by those protesting (Protestants) certain activities, it still remained a galvanizing/cohesive force during the Age of Expansion (known as the World War against everyone else)
The concocted boogey-man was not only those that looked different but those of DIFFERENT BELIEF-SYSTEMS. Be it slavics. chinese, indians, american indians, polynesians, aborigines or the afrikan, the AWARENESS and FEAR of complexion and culture/religion differences was INDOCTRINATED into the psyches of white europeans.
AWARENESS AND FOCUSING ON DIFFERENCES!
The Popes called the shots...or did they? They still answered to canon from the New and OLD Testaments of the Judeo-Christian Biblioteca.
How did Europeans transition from trading in Timbuktu, studying at the feet of Afrikan thinkers in Kemet and interbreeding with Moors to shooting noses off of Sphinxes and chopping scrotums off of Afrikan men???
WHAT INITIALIZED THIS CHANGE?
It is within the analysis of this transition that we will find an ugly/taboo/forbidden answer.
You cite Zoroastrianism. OKIE DOKIE, I will roll with that (*wink*). Because what is for sure is at some point, by someone, Europeans were INDOCTRINATED with their worldview because nothing about white/male supremacy is new to them nor was it necessary BEFORE European homogenization.
Pagan/heathen europeans were NOT racist. Early monotheics had no problem with a BLACK Madonna.
Europeans did NOT "create" the concept of racism nor did they originate slavery...not chattel slavery.
So my question is WHEN and BY WHOM was racist thought and classism and slavery introduced to the Europeans???
When there were Baltics and Celts and Welsh and Scots and Germanics and Francos and Normans, there was NO racism towards, nor slavery against Afrikans.
The best way to deflect hostilities towards you is to concoct an enemy of your enemy. That takes the heat off your back.
WHO IS DOING THE CONCOCTING?
WHO IS THE REAL BOSS?
* ideology is the real boss and i agree that this ideology has its roots in certain perceptions of reality that are concretized within certain cultural groups that can and do then go onto influence other groups. but the way you are describing it - you make it sound like it is one big plot with certain people calling all the shots EVERY step of the way as if they knew exactly what was going to happen. i'm not sure ANYONE has this kind of foresight. i think that in the course of empire many of these characteristics(unification through some universal idea and differentiating the unified masses from the "other" to make the idea distinct and concretized in the collective mind) you point to are natural occurances - born out of necessity to keep the juggernaut rolling. these are born out of the need to manipulate to keep the man-made organism alive.
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