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Any mates for Caster Semenya? *LINK*

Posted By: karibkween
Date: Thursday, 20 October 2011, at 10:09 p.m.

In Response To: Re: We'll cut your aid if you persecute gays, *LINK* (karibkween)

Male or female? Babies born on the sliding sex scale

A child that is born neither male or female is a rare occurrence but babies born with some form of Disorder of Sex Development (DSD) happens in one in every 1,500 births, according to the support group Accord Alliance.

For some born with a DSD it can mean growing up in a world of shame and secrecy, but many people are working to foster openness about it.

After Janet was born, it was difficult to tell if she was a boy or a girl. "When my grandfather learned there was a question of my sex, it was suggested by him that they just let me die," she says.

Now in her 50s and a mother of two, she was born with a womb, ovaries and female genes but her genitals and hormones were partly masculine. She was diagnosed with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, a DSD where her body makes too much testosterone.

Male and female genitals grow from the same tissue, but testosterone makes them look and develop differently. So an enlarged clitoris can be something between male and female.

Living with this condition, says Janet, left her a "psychological mess" for many years.

A wide range of factors determine a baby's sex. Disruption in the development of any of these can cause a disorder of sex development. They can range from girls with more masculine characteristics and vice versa, to babies born with indeterminate sex, previously known as intersex.

Clinical psychologist and sex therapist Dr Tiger Devore was born with indeterminate sex. He has severe hypospadias, an abnormality of the penis, which in its milder form can affect one in 250 men.

"(Intersex) people are usually raised with shame and secrecy," he says.

"Those babies are hidden from general society - and that was my experience of growing up."

"I always had to keep it a big secret. I could not tell anybody I was having surgery down there, which we're not supposed to talk about."

Aileen Schast, a clinical psychologist who counsels families at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, says: "It can be very confusing and isolating for families and what worries me the most is an early feeling of shame starts to develop, as this has to do with genitalia, and we don't talk about that.

"Everyone is dying to find out what the baby is and how do you say we don't really know yet.

"I had one parent tell me she almost wished her child had cancer because at least people have heard of it, so when she needed support she could say this is what my child has and people would know what it meant."

Choosing a sex

Since Janet and Dr Devore were born there is much more understanding about Disorders of Sex Development.

Today the whole family of children born with a DSD are involved from the beginning, and urology, endocrinology, genetics, social work and psychology experts also work together.
For a child born of indeterminate sex they will undergo number of tests including those involving chromosomes, hormones and internal organs. To further complicate things the test results are not just either male or female, they can be on a sliding scale between the two.

Ultimately the sex chosen for an intersex baby is the one doctors and their family believe they will grow up to identify with best.

Dr Devore and Janet were both born at a time when parents went along with what the doctors said and surgery was seen as the first thing to do.

They have both had multiple operations. Dr Devore has had 20 surgeries, the first at three months old.

"In my view all the surgeries I suffered up to age 19 were unnecessary failures," he says.

"I lost a tremendous amount of feeling tissue that I would like to have."

Some people now believe that surgery should be left until the child can make the decision themselves.

"There are a lot of activists that describe infant surgery in one word - mutilation," explains Dr Devore.

"Unless there's a medical necessity to change the appearance of those genitals I don't think they should be cut on at all," he asserts.

"It's the kid's genitals, not the parents or the doctors and when they're young adults they are going to want them to work."

But Tom Kolon, MD Urologist at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia points out there can be a problem with leaving it until the child has grown up.

"I think we would all want the child to be able to make the decisions themselves. The problem there is if you wait until they are old enough and mature enough to understand and say yes - have you hurt them by not doing the surgery or the medication earlier?"

Female outside, male inside

Some DSDs are not obvious at birth because they affect the internal organs and can go undiagnosed for years.

Katie has androgen insensitivity syndrome, which was only discovered when she had a hernia operation when she was six.

"I look female on the outside, I have a normal female body but instead of having XX chromosomes like a typical female I have XY chromosomes like a typical male."

During her hernia operation, surgeons were surprised to find a partially descended testicle. She also had no ovaries and no womb.

Her mother and father, who are both doctors, had been trained at medical school not to tell women if they had this condition "because it would be so devastating to them that they would commit suicide".

But Katie's parents broke the mould and did tell her some of the details of the condition to prepare her.

Katie was 18 when they told her the full details, which changed her world.

"I was really scared. I was not prepared to think about myself as totally and irreversibly different to every other woman. I wondered if I would ever be loved, if I was so different I couldn't be loved," she says.

Her testes were removed and she takes pills to give her more appropriate hormones.

Katie and her mother went on Oprah's TV programme to talk about her condition and the publicity has contributed to more openness about DSDs in the US than there is in the UK.

"I think we have very inadequate definitions of what sex is," says Katie.

"But based on what we do have I can't say that I'm either male or female in terms of my sex, although my gender identity is very female."

Dr Devore would also like to see the definitions of sex widened.

"The tyranny of being forced to circle M or F (male or female) on every form I fill out, I'd like to see that change, I'd like to have a lot more options.

"Typically what I do is I circle the whole thing so it is 'MORF', M or F - that is my favourite way of responding to that question."

Me, My Sex and I will be broadcast on BBC One, on Tuesday 11 October at 22:35.

Male or female?

Messages In This Thread

Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Human?
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 3 August 2011, at 9:27 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Howard Henry -- Thursday, 4 August 2011, at 10:03 a.m.
There Are So Many Things For UsTo Investigate
Ras Marcus -- Thursday, 4 August 2011, at 9:08 p.m.
Re: There Are So Many Things For UsTo Investigate
Ras Howard Henry -- Friday, 5 August 2011, at 8:18 a.m.
Re: There Are So Many Things For UsTo Investigate
Ras Howard Henry -- Saturday, 6 August 2011, at 8:46 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu *NM* *LINK*
three_sixty -- Thursday, 4 August 2011, at 10:49 a.m.
REASONING DISTRACTION *LINK*
of ma'at -- Saturday, 6 August 2011, at 7:45 a.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
of ma'at -- Saturday, 6 August 2011, at 8:03 a.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Marcus -- Monday, 8 August 2011, at 12:48 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Howard Henry -- Monday, 8 August 2011, at 10:24 p.m.
The True Purpose Of Mating Is To Reproduce.
Ras Marcus -- Thursday, 11 August 2011, at 1:49 p.m.
Re: The True Purpose Of Mating Is To Reproduce.
Ras Howard Henry -- Thursday, 11 August 2011, at 2:49 p.m.
It Us Dangerous For Children To Grow Up Among Them
Ras Marcus -- Thursday, 11 August 2011, at 9:00 p.m.
Re: It Us Dangerous For Children To Grow Up Among
Ras Howard Henry -- Thursday, 11 August 2011, at 11:14 p.m.
It Is Clear That thier Dirty Ways Are Spreading
Ras Marcus -- Friday, 12 August 2011, at 8:55 p.m.
Re: It Is Clear That thier Dirty Ways Are Spreadin
Ras Howard Henry -- Friday, 12 August 2011, at 11:14 p.m.
Re: It Is Clear That thier Dirty Ways Are Spreadin
Ras Howard Henry -- Friday, 12 August 2011, at 11:19 p.m.
What Will Children When They See Two Men Kissi ng
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 13 August 2011, at 1:53 p.m.
Re: What Will Children When They See Two Men Kissi
Ras Howard Henry -- Saturday, 13 August 2011, at 7:34 p.m.
Parents Should Protect There Childeren From Them.
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 14 August 2011, at 3:38 p.m.
Re: Parents Should Protect There Childeren From Th
Ras Howard Henry -- Sunday, 14 August 2011, at 7:31 p.m.
When I Talk Of Mankind I Am Talking Human Beings
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 14 August 2011, at 8:36 p.m.
Re: When I Talk Of Mankind I Am Talking Human Bein
Ras Howard Henry -- Monday, 15 August 2011, at 10:10 a.m.
Aman's Attitude Will Reveal If He Is Man Not Kind
Ras Marcus -- Monday, 15 August 2011, at 3:35 p.m.
Re: Aman's Attitude Will Reveal If He Is Man Not K
Ras Howard Henry -- Monday, 15 August 2011, at 9:26 p.m.
Reality Says There Are Traitors In Every Race .
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 8:36 p.m.
Re: Reality Says There Are Traitors In Every Race
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 10:40 p.m.
Many Of Our Own People Has Has Been Used
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 4:15 p.m.
Re: Many Of Our Own People Has Has Been Used
Ras Howard Henry -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 5:53 p.m.
Re: Reality Says There Are Traitors In Every Race
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 27 September 2011, at 1:53 a.m.
Re: Reality Says There Are Traitors In Every Race
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 27 September 2011, at 1:54 a.m.
Re: Reality Says There Are Traitors In Every Race
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 27 September 2011, at 1:57 a.m.
Re: It Us Dangerous For Children To Grow Up Among
RHEDMAN -- Sunday, 14 August 2011, at 11:26 a.m.
Children Learn From What Is Practiced Around Them
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 14 August 2011, at 4:02 p.m.
Re: Children Learn From What Is Practiced Around T
G -- Monday, 15 August 2011, at 12:14 p.m.
Man And Woman Fit Into Each Other Not Man And Man
Ras Marcus -- Monday, 15 August 2011, at 4:09 p.m.
Re: Man And Woman Fit Into Each Other Not Man And
three_sixty -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 5:58 p.m.
As Sodomites Increase Children Will Decrease
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 9:10 p.m.
Iron Sharpens Iron
G -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 9:23 a.m.
Sodom And Gomorruh Is Coming Again.
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 5:00 p.m.
Ras Marcus
three_sixty -- Thursday, 18 August 2011, at 9:34 a.m.
Re: As Sodomites Increase Children Will Decrease
three_sixty -- Thursday, 18 August 2011, at 10:01 a.m.
The Fig Tree Becomes Large Tree From A Tiny Seed.
Ras Marcus -- Thursday, 18 August 2011, at 11:40 a.m.
A word of caution
karibkween -- Thursday, 18 August 2011, at 12:13 p.m.
Who is the traitor?
G -- Friday, 19 August 2011, at 9:20 a.m.
I think she's right
rosalind -- Saturday, 20 August 2011, at 7:35 p.m.
Re: I think she's right
G -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 8:33 a.m.
Re: I think she's right
rosalind -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 10:47 a.m.
Iman Is Not Allowing Evil By Speaking By Truth
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 12:01 p.m.
Re: I think she's right
three_sixty -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 11:10 a.m.
Re: I think she's right
karibkween -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 8:41 p.m.
Re: I think she's right
three_sixty -- Monday, 22 August 2011, at 9:51 a.m.
my bad 360 *NM*
rosalind -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 8:48 p.m.
Animals' Sexual Changes Linked to Waste, Chemicals *NM* *LINK*
three_sixty -- Wednesday, 28 September 2011, at 1:20 p.m.
Re: Animals' Sexual Changes Linked to Waste, Chemi *LINK*
karibkween -- Tuesday, 4 October 2011, at 8:28 p.m.
Re: Animals' Sexual Changes Linked to Waste, Chemi
three_sixty -- Wednesday, 5 October 2011, at 11:10 a.m.
We'll cut your aid if you persecute gays, *LINK*
karibkween -- Monday, 10 October 2011, at 9:36 p.m.
Re: We'll cut your aid if you persecute gays, *LINK*
karibkween -- Tuesday, 11 October 2011, at 7:25 p.m.
Any mates for Caster Semenya? *LINK*
karibkween -- Thursday, 20 October 2011, at 10:09 p.m.
Re: Animals' Sexual Changes Linked to Waste, Chemi *LINK*
three_sixty -- Wednesday, 9 November 2011, at 10:43 a.m.
Re: Animals' Sexual Changes Linked to Waste, Chemi *LINK*
karibkween -- Wednesday, 7 December 2011, at 7:24 p.m.
psychosis *NM*
three_sixty -- Thursday, 8 December 2011, at 3:11 p.m.
Re: psychosis
karibkween -- Thursday, 8 December 2011, at 5:09 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Prince Burridge -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 11:57 a.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 12:25 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
melaninmagic -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 4:09 p.m.
Mother Nature's Laws Are Being Violated
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 9:40 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 10:57 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 9:17 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Howard Henry -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 11:07 p.m.
We Have To Build our One Schools And Centers
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 9:05 p.m.
Re: We Have To Build our One Schools And Centers
Ras Howard Henry -- Thursday, 18 August 2011, at 10:14 a.m.
Just A Brief Piece Of History
Ras Marcus -- Thursday, 18 August 2011, at 1:24 p.m.
Re: Just A Brief Piece Of History
Ras Howard Henry -- Friday, 19 August 2011, at 11:14 a.m.
At That Time Jamaica Was Not Yet Independent
Ras Marcus -- Friday, 19 August 2011, at 8:46 p.m.
Re: At That Time Jamaica Was Not Yet Independent
Ras Howard Henry -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 9:11 a.m.
Victioria Statute Is Not There Anymore
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 12:49 p.m.
Re: Victioria Statute Is Not There Anymore
Ras Howard Henry -- Monday, 22 August 2011, at 2:25 p.m.
This Earth Quake Is A Big Warning To Them
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 9:57 a.m.
Re: This Earth Quake Is A Big Warning To Them
Ras Howard Henry -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 12:10 p.m.
Give Thankhs for de IanIStory!!! *LINK*
G -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 8:41 a.m.
Re: Give Thankhs for de IanIStory!!!
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 12:38 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
karibkween -- Tuesday, 16 August 2011, at 6:45 p.m.
We Were All Born From Women. Be Greatful
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 8:38 p.m.
Look what I found. LMFAO! *LINK*
karibkween -- Friday, 19 August 2011, at 1:03 a.m.
Marriage Is Between A Man And A Woman
Ras Marcus -- Friday, 19 August 2011, at 10:20 p.m.
Re: Marriage Is Between A Man And A Woman
karibkween -- Saturday, 20 August 2011, at 3:02 p.m.
I Am Only Her To Speak The Truth And Speak It Ever
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 12:30 p.m.
How is your health Baba ? *NM*
karibkween -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 2:22 p.m.
I Am Still Walking & Talking & Breathing .
Ras Marcus -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 5:50 p.m.
Re: I Am Still Walking & Talking & Breathing .
karibkween -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 8:16 p.m.
Thanks For Asking About My Heath
Ras Marcus -- Monday, 22 August 2011, at 4:12 p.m.
Re: Thanks For Asking About My Heath
karibkween -- Monday, 22 August 2011, at 5:34 p.m.
Re: Thanks For Asking About My Heath
three_sixty -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 12:04 p.m.
Re: Thanks For Asking About My Heath *LINK*
karibkween -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 3:08 p.m.
Re: Thanks For Asking About My Heath
three_sixty -- Monday, 29 August 2011, at 4:58 p.m.
Genetic parasites invaded the mammalian genome *LINK*
karibkween -- Saturday, 1 October 2011, at 1:57 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu *LINK*
Prince Burridge -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 1:34 p.m.
Someone already posted that wikipedia link...
of ma'at -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 8:51 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 17 August 2011, at 9:16 p.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
three_sixty -- Friday, 19 August 2011, at 10:44 a.m.
Re: Any Other Creatures Are Sodomites Away From Hu
rosalind -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 9:13 p.m.
Many People Were Led AstrayBecause Of Vanity
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 23 August 2011, at 9:01 p.m.
Re: Many People Were Led AstrayBecause Of Vanity
rosalind -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 9:06 a.m.
You Are Right It is Not New
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 10:25 a.m.
Re: You Are Right It is Not New
rosalind -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 12:04 p.m.
MY LORD
Rasta Queen -- Sunday, 21 August 2011, at 10:58 p.m.
Universe Gives Warning By Earthquake.
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 23 August 2011, at 8:41 p.m.
MY LORD CONSIDER THIS
Rasta Queen -- Tuesday, 23 August 2011, at 9:33 p.m.
nicely reasoned Queen *LINK*
rosalind -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 8:27 a.m.
Re: nicely reasoned Queen
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 26 August 2011, at 10:28 p.m.
I MEANT "ANGER REPLACEMENT" *NM*
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 26 August 2011, at 10:30 p.m.
Rastafari People Are Now World Wide
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 4:46 p.m.
Re: Rastafari People Are Now World Wide
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 2 September 2011, at 4:40 p.m.
Quite A Partial Post, What About The Others
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 5:15 p.m.
RASpect to Leonard Howell *LINK*
G -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 9:17 a.m.
I BIG UP HOWELL ! *NM*
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 26 August 2011, at 10:20 p.m.
A Penis Fits Into A Vagina For Mating
Ras Marcus -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 12:02 p.m.
Re: A Penis Fits Into A Vagina For Mating
karibkween -- Wednesday, 24 August 2011, at 1:10 p.m.
Elizabeth Is A Part tOf The Slave Masters Pact
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 5:47 p.m.
Re: A Penis Fits Into A Vagina For Mating
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 26 August 2011, at 10:18 p.m.
Re: A Penis Fits Into A Vagina For Mating
Ras Howard Henry -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 10:48 a.m.
Who has advocated the hatred of ANYONE?
of ma'at -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 2:52 p.m.
They Write FromThe Figment Of Their Imagination
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 9:03 p.m.
Re: Who has advocated the hatred of ANYONE?
RHEDMAN -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 11:44 a.m.
Re: Who has advocated the hatred of ANYONE? *LINK*
rosalind -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 12:42 p.m.
Re: Who has advocated the hatred of ANYONE?
RHEDMAN -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 2:43 p.m.
Re: Who has advocated the hatred of ANYONE?
Ras Howard Henry -- Sunday, 28 August 2011, at 3:00 p.m.
This Is Rastafari People's Forum Of Reasoning.
Ras Marcus -- Tuesday, 30 August 2011, at 5:34 p.m.
EXCELLENT POST ! *NM*
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 2 September 2011, at 4:53 p.m.
Agitating For African People Is Not Hatred
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 8:45 p.m.
Re: Agitating For African People Is Not Hatred
Rasta Queen -- Friday, 2 September 2011, at 5:50 p.m.
Re: Agitating For African People Is Not Hatred
RHEDMAN -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 12:12 a.m.
you do have a point there. *NM*
Rasta Queen -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 12:18 p.m.
Howell Was Among The First Rastafari People
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 12:38 p.m.
Re: Howell Was Among The First Rastafari People
Rasta Queen -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 1:01 p.m.
Tafari Makonnen Was Made Governor In The Year 1901
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 9:48 p.m.
CLASS? TEACH?
RASTA QUEEN -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 10:18 p.m.
Re: Howell Was Among The First Rastafari People
Ras Howard Henry -- Saturday, 3 September 2011, at 10:20 p.m.
Re: Howell Was Among The First Rastafari People
RASTA QUEEN -- Sunday, 4 September 2011, at 12:15 a.m.
Re: Howell Was Among The First Rastafari People
Ras Howard Henry -- Sunday, 4 September 2011, at 1:04 a.m.
My Internet Failed To Work For A Few Days?
Ras Marcus -- Saturday, 27 August 2011, at 4:22 p.m.

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