Posted By: RoshTovAri In Response To: Re: 'Scam' or 'Massacre'? (gman)
Date: Wednesday, 25 February 2009, at 9:06 p.m.
In Response To: Re: 'Scam' or 'Massacre'? (gman)
You wrote (quote):
--- Mr evangelical israel apologist: ---
You can label me but I don't fit any labeling (so neither this one). I don't believe in labeling.
--- Kindly go to your local library and read a book by Ilan Pappe, I forget the name of the book but it is about the events of 1948 and it goes through them in great detail,...---
Ilan Pappe, yes, I know about him, the book you refer to ("The ethnic cleansing of Palestine"). And his (way of) historiography too. An example. He says he refuses to see the expelling from Palestinians as a result from a war because as he says: "The destruction of villages had already begun for five months before the regular Arab armies invaded Palestine in 1948". But he's wrong and ignoring many things, as near about six months of civil war preceded this invasion of Arab armies, initiated by the Arab community in Palestine as reaction on the proposed dividing plan of 1947 from the UN. Espescially convoys to provision Jewish communities were attacked, isolating the thousands of Jews (about a hundred thousand) that was threatening them with starvation. They first answered in defense and turned to attack when the situation got too critical.
He (Ilan Pappe) is calling it a "myth" that 'Palestinians' were called by Arab leaders to evacuate and return after the battle was won (by which I'm not saying that there where none droven away). But it is proven to be true and not a socalled "myth". And have you, for instance, ever heared of Grand Mufti Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini?
However, don't try to put me in one of your boxes, please. They'll be always too small, for me and any other one. For I neither believe in boxes for anyone. I know we as humans tend to put things and people in boxes, but we should at least try to (as the saying goes) "think outside the box(es)". I have my critics to Israeli governments, acts of war(crimes). I'm not a man of war; I will never be happy with any war in any time, but I want things to be seen in the right perspective and context. And apparently I come to different conclusions.
--- ...by the way the author is an israeli jew so you'll have to call him a 'self hating jew' not an 'anti-semite'. ---
Where did I call him anti-Semite? Anyway, also Jews can have anti-Semitic/Jewish opinions, if that's your point. Terminology like "self hating Jew" I'll leave to psychologists.
--- Read that book then get back to me... but why am I saying this... I know you ain't gonna read that book... ---
Now what do you want and... what makes you think you know about me concerning reading books? I read presumptions and presuppositions and ill-based conclusions. Please, I'm here to reason in peace; you can leave the flaming attitude; i'm open for anything that is truthful. To anything that deeply questions my beliefs and ideas.
--- you've got your [particular translation of] the bible to read and all the answers to everything are in there, aren't they? ---
What do you know about me? Can't we just reason without all these false and silly assumptions?
--- So forget 1948 cos I know you AIN'T gonna take the time to read that book... ---
I don't know you, but you already seem to know much about me... interesting. How come?
--- how about NOW... are you gonna justify so called 'Israel' blowing the hell out of Palestinian children NOW? And don't give me any weak crap about how 'those kids were on the street just OUTSIDE the UN school, not in the UN school itself' or any such crap. ---
I take the death of any child because of war as heart-tearing. Therefore I'll never speak in terms of justification. The little children are always innocent victims, whatever side they are said to be standing. I believe we should place the child central in our thinking. We can also speak in terms of responsability. As I'm not living in that area I can only speak in general of what is easily to be verified, till facts proof differently. For instance: The IDF does not aim at children. Yet, children (and other civilian) are proven to be used as human shields (and approved so by their leaders), etc. Hamas fires their qassams and thing aiming to hit Israeli civilians (for eight years without striking back). Their leaders boldly proclaim they want to kill the Jews, drive them into the sea, etc. and they (try to) do; by suicide-bombers, mortars, etc. etc.
And yes, the UNRWA has lied; outside the UN school indeed, as the UN has admitted themselves! So please check your sources again.
But, yet, I do have serious critics towards Israel. It's clear to see that this situation is not good and/or healthy.
--- You should meet my boy "E.Z.", he is a white jew himself, and I know for a fact that he will PHYSICALLY ATTACK any white jew or apologist for same who attempts to justify the genocide in Palesine. ---
You may keep speaking about "genocide", "apartheid" and thing like you do, but that doesn't make it true.
--- He's been there, lived in a kibbutz, seen the apartheid racism first hand, and he WILL WRESTLE YOU TO THE GROUND AND BEAT YOUR DONKEY if you try to justify the atrocities being committed against the longsuffering people of Palestine. I hope you get to meet him someday, you could call him a 'self hating jew' before you get your teeth knocked out.
Gee... sorry if I sound harsh...NOT ---
Yes, you're angry.
It's anyway very remarkable to read not even one small side-comment of criticism towards Hamas, Fatach, P.A., Hezbullah, etc., etc. But they're probably "freedom-fighters organisations"?
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