Re: what about the indo-european invasion of Europ
Posted By: three_sixty In Response To: Re: what about the indo-european invasion of Europ (livelyup)
Date: Wednesday, 13 April 2005, at 9:29 a.m.
In Response To: Re: what about the indo-european invasion of Europ (livelyup)
"Iyah, i am intrinsically suspicious of what i would view as being simplistic explanations of complex historical forces. There is no doubt, for example, that peoples such as the sythians and their pre-decessors, and indeed subsequent pastoral peoples made incursions into europe. However this would not have ever covered the whole area, and was probably more of a piece meal process that occured in waves over time, with some areas being occupiied and overrun, and others being left unscathed."
* I see what you are saying about the WAY in which these changes happened, but I think that we can agree in the truth in the fact that it DID indeed happen.
"In terms of the diffusion of patriarchal sky god worship, it is far mpre likely that this occured through a combination of occasional military incursions, trade, and social transitions from small scale agriculture to larger societal entities, an evolution that is generally accompanied by a similar re-ordering of the religous system, as the state centralises, so does the pantheon, as warfare becomes more organised, the war god gets more worship etc."
* Well, there must have been the infusion of a patriarchal form of warship in order for this change in religious ideas to have occurred. Again, I see what you are saying about HOW this actually occured, but again, I think we can agree that it did indeed occur. Of course warlike ideas(and the people who carry these ideas and type of organization) are going to have dominance over sedentary agricultural type of communities - I do not see this as "evolution" though.
"An example of this thing is the spread of celtic culture throughout europe. Genetic surveys seem to show that rather than this being a case of actual physical movements of large numbers of people, it was more a case of small population changes, which may or may not have been miltary, followed by a gradual cultural change to an existing population."
"A similar situation is happening today with the spread of US culture. they dont have to actually move phyisically to a place to spread their culture there."
* O.K. - and in this example the ideas are like a cancer, not indicitive of real "evolution." U.S. culture is de-evolution IMO. It may be spread by "superior" forms of manipulation, military might and psychological warfare, but the substance of the culture which is spread in these ways is spiritually and morally bankrupt for the most part.
"But, i would point out that all of this is very conjectural, and that i am just representing one particular perspective, as are yourself and others here, and i am very much learning from the continued interchange on this issue..."
* Yes, true.
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