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Re: RELIGION....
In Response To: Re: RELIGION.... ()

Peace.

"So Marx saw the truth about religion but he was still a fool for not going beyond his manifesto when it was very well possible."

Well, actually he wrote lots of great books like "Das Kapital"; anyway, his views and thoughts on religion or God as you rightly said are his business. He was an atheist, but that fact doesn't really change the importance of his economic analyses at all to me.

"Most Marxists are these so-called 'revolutionary' professors and intellectuals. They never hit the heights, and they just sit in their offices with books to the cielings talken 'bout revolution..."

Indeed I don't see many Marxists nowadays. You would hardly find one. Today there are still left-wing parties and even those parties which are considered "extremist" like neo-communist ones for instance, fully recognize the mistakes and the flaws history has been pointing out; therefore their aim is a re-foundation, if you know what I mean.
Moreover, who are those intellectuals you're talking about?
Have you ever read about Ernesto "Che" Guevara and what he did and accomplished in his life for example?
Almost nobody today wants an armed revolution, you know, the political struggle is carried on within the democratic system that most of the nations adopt.

A nation/system which doesn't tolerate dissent is bound to fall.

Anyway, yeah, nobody can kill the spirit for sure.

Read this passage I found on a site (I know it's pretty long):

"Christianity and Communism
----------------------------
In the early years of the church, its representatives continued to echo the original - i.e., communist - views of the movement. St. Clement wrote: "The use of all things that are found in this world ought to be common to all men. Only the most manifest iniquity makes one say to the other, 'This belongs to me, that to you,' Hence, the origin of contention among men."

This is a correct observation, and clearly states that the origin of the class struggle ("contention among men") is the existence of private property. The elimination of contention among men thus presupposes the abolition of private property. A similar idea was expressed by St. Basil the Great: "What thing do you call 'yours'? What thing are you able to say is yours? From whom have you received it? You speak and act like one who upon an occasion going early to the theatre and possessing himself without obstacle of the seats destined for the remainder of the public, pretends to oppose their entrance in due time, and to prohibit them seating themselves, arrogating to his own sole use the property that is really destined to common use. And it is in precisely in this manner act the rich."

Likewise, St. Gregory: "Therefore, if one wishes to make himself the master of every wealth, to possess it and exclude his bothers even to the third or fourth part (generation), such a wretch is no more a brother but an inhuman tyrant, a cruel barbarian, or rather, a ferocious beast of which the mouth is always open to devour for his personal use the food of the other companions."

And St. Ambrose: "Nature furnishes its wealth to all men in common. God beneficently has created all things that their enjoyment be common to all living beings, and that the earth become the common possession of all. It is Nature itself that has given birth to the right of the community, whilst it is only unjust usurpation that has created the right of private poverty."

And St. Gregory the Great: "The earth of which they are born is common to all, and therefore the fruit that the earth brings forth belongs without distinction to all" to which St. Chrysostom added: "The rich man is a thief".

These lines are sufficient to illustrate the revolutionary roots of Christianity in its early period. The early Christians were prepared to endure the most ghastly tortures in defence of their faith, defying the state and the ruling class and perishing in the arena. The reason for this ferocious persecution was that this movement of the poor and dispossessed represented a threat to the existing order. But none of these methods succeeded in crushing the movement, which derived new strength from the blood of its martyrs.

However, given the lack of a material basis for the introduction of a classless society, gradually everything changed into its opposite. Under the prevailing conditions, the leadership of the Church, starting with the bishops who were, in effect the treasurers, came under the pressure of the ruling class and the state and gradually moved away from the original communistic beliefs of the movement. Realising the impossibility of defeating the Christians by repression, the ruling class changed its tactics. The way in which the upper layers of the Church were corrupted by the emperor Constantine can be seen in the following passage from the historian of the early Church, Eusebius, which describes the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, presided over by the emperor himself, "like some messenger of God".

To quote Eusebius: "The circumstances of the banquet were splendid beyond description. Detachments of the bodyguard and other troops surrounded entrance of the palace with drawn swords, and through the midst of these the men of God proceeded without fear into the innermost of the imperial apartments. Some were the emperor's own companions at table, others reclined on couches ranged on either side. One might have thought that it was a picture of Christ's kingdom, and a dream rather than reality." (T. Ware, The Orthodox Church, p.27.)

These methods are all too familiar to socialists and trade unionists today. They are precisely the same methods whereby the leaders of the trade union and labour movement are brought under the influence of bourgeois ideas and become corrupted and absorbed into the system. The tops of the movement are invited to expensive dinners and parties where they rub shoulders with the rich and famous. Ever since the Council of Nicea, the Church has been the firmest supporter of wealth, privilege and oppression.

The gains to the empire of this sell-out were palpable. The early Christians refused to recognise the state or serve in the army. Now this was reversed. The Church became one of the main pillars of the state and ferociously persecuted anyone who called its new doctrines into question. When Arius of Alexandria rejected the Nicene creed, his supporters (the Arians) were put to the sword. Over 3,000 Christians were killed by their fellow Christians - more than in three centuries of Roman persecution. By such means did the Church of the poor and oppressed become transformed into the principal vehicle for their enslavement."

Peace.

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RELIGION....
Re: RELIGION....
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